K-Roll is on a break from studying...

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 10/09/2014 at 21:46 • Filed to: Paint

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And he's got a question in regards to lacquer paint compared to modern water-based paint for cars. Which is better and why? I'm unusually curious about this; Besides original paint being more desired for classic cars which will usually be lacquer, and repainted and newer cars which will be water-based. Which is more durable and longer lasting? Perhaps a history lesson.

I've also noticed that people seem to take pride in the fact that their pant is original, not sure why. For example, my dad's 911's paint isn't original, it was repainted in the late 80s or early 90s; my 944 has it's original paint and looks pretty nice. While I don't mind that the 911 has been repainted and looks a helluva lot cleaner than my 944, I like how my paint is original.

EDIT: I meant to add whatever kind of paint they used in the 70s-80s as well; how's that compare to modern paint?

ly2v8-Brian > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 21:50

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Modern polymer paints are better. They just are. Lacquer was ok but there are many reasons it's not used anymore.

crowmolly > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 21:51

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Preface: I'm not a body man.

But from what I remember lacquer is very hard and cracks easily. It also doesn't hold up nearly as well as modern BC/CC systems do. Plus it's hard to find and is even illegal in some areas.

It is almost never used these days. Easy to spray and "original" but new paint tech has outgunned it in almost every way.

Bandit > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 21:51

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Lacquer paint tends to crack and age over time, so that's a thing. See picture:

Crocket Bernet > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 21:52

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I believe Larry Kossilla from AMMO said something about today's paints being more durable because of the clear coating, where a single stage paint will wear away, hence detainees need to be much more cautious when working with single stage paints.

GhostZ > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 21:53

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From what I've read, lacquer paint is much more prone to scratches and losing its shape/sheen. Lacquer thinner is also nasty stuff, so there might be some benefit to paint repair or application for other paint types.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > ly2v8-Brian 10/09/2014 at 21:57

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Such as?

Jedidiah > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 21:57

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You can make lacquer paint look better with a fresh paint job, but it can crack when it gets old.

Lacquer also shines up nicely.

Modern cars generally have ugly paint with orange peel because robots can't paint worth a damn.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Bandit 10/09/2014 at 21:58

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Ew, yuck!

That your car?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Crocket Bernet 10/09/2014 at 21:58

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Aren't some cars from way back clear coated?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > GhostZ 10/09/2014 at 21:59

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This is interesting for sure.

Bandit > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 22:00

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God no! This is a gis. My car was from 81 so I think it wasn't lacquer paint. Though I did have cracks like that on some fiberglass body components.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jedidiah 10/09/2014 at 22:01

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What exactly is orange peel? I've heard that thrown around when it comes to newer vehicles.

ly2v8-Brian > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 22:01

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Environmental and health hazard. Total PITA to strip. The modern paints are easier to blend and match for panel repair. That's what I can think of.

Jedidiah > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 22:05

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K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jedidiah 10/09/2014 at 22:10

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How does it happen?

Jedidiah > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 22:14

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They don't sand new cars from the factory.

The paint clumps together slightly as it is sprayed.

They just spray 'em and ship 'em.

You get rid of orange peel with wet sanding

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jedidiah 10/09/2014 at 22:20

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That's lazy.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 22:27

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Second on the cracking lacquer. My Jag has cracks under the rear window...the car is black, so they looked white and gross. A Sharpie marker has provided a temporary fix.

That said, I like lacquer. Call me old fashioned.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 10/09/2014 at 22:28

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Why do you like it?

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 22:31

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Seems to me that nothing shines like lacquer. Honestly, I don't even mind a little crackle in an older paint job...I'm a sucker for the little things that let you know a car is old, even when it looks new. From a painting point of view, I like the smell of lacquer...a weird preference, I know. And it just seems for my painting style, lacquers are more forgiving, I always seem to get them to lay down nice.

Crocket Bernet > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/09/2014 at 22:54

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No clue, I just regurgitated what I can remember about the subject but I'm no expert.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Crocket Bernet 10/09/2014 at 23:02

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No worries.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 10/10/2014 at 10:16

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An old-fashioned lacquer with lead in it may crack, yes, but it tends to be very thick, insanely rugged, and sticks to the car like glue. It's "soft", but typically resists sunlight well and due to being a single homogenous coating, can just be rubbed down further and further to remove decayed surface. Due to the thickness and ability to have a softened number of diffusing microscratches in the surface, it has a very distinct "glow" when done properly. When people say "hand-rubbed lacquer", this is what they're talking about - coat after coat after coat blended together and with a warm slightly translucent finish. It's not the same "deep" of a thick clearcoat, but to some eyes it's arguably better. It also holds signs of age without necessarily looking like crap - you can just brighten it up, and it'll still look "old", but GOOD.

Modern lacquers are missing a lot of the fun stuff for environmental reasons, and don't get applied in the same labor-intensive way most of the time - hence worse results for aging, repairability, adherence, and initial finish. There's nothing like lead. Urethanes have some of the same qualities as lacquers, but seem to oxidize to death too easily.

We're having a go with acrylic enamel on the most recent Land Rover project due to the fact that while the one-coat urethane on mine worked out okay, in the same time span a semi-metallic dark blue on a Benz went completely to shit - as did a high metallic medium blue on a Volvo. Paint shops will sometimes press you to go urethane... they are probably wrong when it comes to amateur application. Not that hard to apply, but apply and last appears to be dark wizardry.